Monday, May 02, 2016

Protestants, Progs and Islam

How can the progs join forces with Islam? Why does it seem like Protestant countries are much more welcoming than Catholic and Orthodox nations? How can the latest outgrowth from the Protestants (Progs) somehow ally with Islam and even defend it? They are allies right now in voting, and the Progs need that Muslim vote now for while it lasts because they do not think of 40 years down the road. Maybe they do, and maybe they have no fear of what comes because of how alike they are. The similarities might take a while to see but once you do, you understand completely.

What are the similarities? Both are evangelical and universal faiths of the one true God. Both are reformations of Christianity. Both focused on political organization as the Prots wanted to take political control from Rome and Muhammad was trying to create a faith that could handl such wildly different tribes in the desert and lands of conquest. Note that the Muslim holy days are on moon cycles which means they change with the years so there is no holiday rivalry as Islam spreads to a new area with different beliefs and customs.

Both were subversive of the society around them. Both focused on reading the book. There is no inner enlightenment or higher understanding that the monks or priests have access to and only reveal and share with the laymen To be with God and understand God was possible in all men. There is little to no hierarchy as "did you read the book" was the focus. As Carleton Coon wrote, 
Brought up in the Arab tradition of small, personal organizations, Muhammad distrusted hierarchies and wanted none in his religion. In fact, he conceived of the office of imam as that of a lay prayer leader and preacher elected by his fellows for the occasion, since all faithful were equally religious, equally close to the deity.
 Consider Protestants. It starts with sola scriptura, but in modern times is almost laughable. Look at the American Protestant evangelical obsession with memorizing Biblical scripture. Even mega-churches are just local communities. Not too different from the Muslim obsession with memorizing the Koran despite the average Arab reading a few pages of literature a year.

These micro similarities extend to cultural similarities. Forget alcohol. Forget dancing. Protestants built crappy churches and mock praying to Mary and iconography. Muslims bar anyone from ever drawing their prophet. The hurdle for being a pastor is low. The hurdle for being a leader in Islam is do you have the Koran memorized and have made a pilgrimage to Mecca. Both engage in holiness spirals, but one is for defending trannies in bathrooms and the other is beheading infidels. Give Islam worldwide conquest and their holiness vector may change to things just as silly. Muslims blow up holy relics of other groups, no matter how much the UN cherishes them. The Southern clients of the Prots and Progs seem to be just as eager to erase the relics and monuments to the outgroup's past.

Why not split the world in two? The Protestants latest outgrowth of progressivism is dominant and acts like a fantastically angry religion. They even crafted apocalyptic scenarios like the Book of revelations and freely lifted from their Protestant roots (air will turn to fire, oceans will boil). The problem is that they can't split the world up in two though because of their evangelical and universal natures. It is too great a prize to capture and convert one of the other tribe. Whether by sword in the case of islam or educational indoctrination and media brainwashing for progs, the goal is the same. Convert or die says the Muslim. Convert or we will bar you from working and feeding your family says the Prog.


R. Wilbur said...

Nrx study topic: literature review of pre-20th century Catholic historical studies based on the thesis that Islam developed as Christian heresy.

Orthodox said...

Calvinism and Islam are also similarly deterministic, and the progs switched to deterministic atheism. Muslims who fall away from the faith also tend towards atheism, your high profile Muslim "converts" tend to become advocates for the Cathedral, not Jesus.

John rockwell said...

Your article incorrect in the understanding of Sola Scriptura and the core doctrines of the Reformation and our disdain for idolatry.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

It's interesting to note how similar Protestantism, Islam, and Progressivism are.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Protestants, Progressives, and Muslims: enemies of culture, enemies of civilization.

ConantheContrarian said...

How is that "catholic" Pope working out for you Catholics?
Many Orthodox and Catholic countries had many communist adherents prior and after both world wars. One can blame the Bolsheviks for 1917 Russia, but enough ethnic Russians must have gone along with the Bolsheviks otherwise they would not have succeeded. And what about the socialist and communists that Franco had to fight and defeat. Were they Spanish Protestants? So, please do not make Protestants out to be some enemy of European culture and civilization. Catholics can be just as liberal and progressive as the next guy.
I am a red-pilled -- red-pilled in more ways than one -- Protestant. Some of what you say is true for some Protestants and not for others, because life is many over-lapping bell curves. The more Protestants that I talk to the more I realize that not everyone is an Episcopalian-Unitarian-Congregationalist. Many evangelicals sitting in the pews where I go to church are quietly white and nationalist, even if they would not admit it.
Red-pilled Christians, Catholics and Protestants and Orthodox alike, can make political alliances in America and Europe to save our culture and civilization against the Muslims and third-world invaders. "And how can man die better than facing fearful odds for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his gods ...

Thomas Henderson said...

Progs, Protestants and Muslims are iconoclasts.

Roman Catholics, Orthodox and High Church Anglicans (at least the traditionalists among them) are wedded to the vision of Christendom and to its basic understanding that human beings are icons (bear the image) of the living God and that we are part of a great chain of being. A faith that embodies "authority coming from above."

Which raises the question: how does one stay steadfast to an iconic faith amid sustained iconoclastic attack? Especially when apostasy is everywhere.

"When the Son of Man returns will He find faith on earth?" Luke 18:8

Portlander said...

Have to agree with Conan. This was SoBL's least convincing piece that I ever recall reading.

Progs & Muzzies, are pushing an agenda that is for their own bald benefit.

The Catholic Church is as much cuck-servile as Mormons, which is as cuck-servile as Evangelicals.

Christian-conservative "leadership" are all made up of political men who are as completely bought-in to the reigning invade, invite, in-hoc status quo as any beltway denizen. They remind me of so-called Conservative Supreme Court Justices.

It's not without a reason that the cuckservative epithet has resonated in the discourse.

As for me, in my small way I skipped this year's Arch-Bishops fund raising appeal. I still give to the local parish, and I realize some percentage makes its way back up the hierarchy, but I won't give to fund their cuck-servile causes explicitly. My only regret about it is that in the reply mail I didn't leave a note as to why I checked "not at this time." It's time for white men to call a general strike, and let it be known why. Let Macy's be the model.

peterike said...

What's amazing is that Progressives form an alliance with Muslims even though they are diametrically opposed on so many actual issues: women, gays, animals, church/state, sexual freedom, etc. It's like they sense at the highest level they are both authoritarian tyrannies, and they will sacrifice all the particulars for the general: power uber alles, and smash whitey above all else. It really shines a light on the Prog mind.

Of course nobody outside the alt-right calls them on any of this.

Mark Yuray said...

1. The Catholic Church is cucked because it was subverted by Progs, who are descendants of Prots. If you're holding up today's RCC to lighten the image of radical Protestantism, you are doing it wrong -- the RCC is an example of radical Protestantism gone amok. Forget Comrade Francis -- look at the RCC in Poland/Hungary or the SSPX. Alternatively, read history and read about the historical RCC, pre-60's, pre-Vatican II.

2. 28Sherman's article is spot-on except for one obvious thing: it's not Islam, it's SUNNI Islam. Almost nothing above applies to Shia Islam anymore, which is much more hierarchical and territorial than semi-deracinated holiness-spiralling Sunni Islam. When there's a terrorist attack in the West, it's never a Shia radical, it's always a Sunni radical.

Peter Blood said...

So what's the plan? Deport the Prots, too?

Portlander said...

it was subverted by Progs, who are descendants of Prots.


Anyone ever met a non-cradle Catholic priest, let alone heard of a non-cradle Bishop or Cardinal?

I'll readily grant I wasn't alive when Vatican II passed, but from what I gather it was passed by Roman-Catholic priests, not the laity, and certainly not by an ecumenical committee of Episcopalians, Southern Baptists, and Unitarian Universalists.

Portlander said...

HA! Just saw Lou Holtz endorsed Trump. First Bobby, then Lou. Come on Dungy, there's still time! You know you want to.

Portlander said...

Oh yeah, Cougar... John Cougar Mellencamp. I'll be looking for him to endorse Trump before the polls open on Tuesday.

NZT said...

LOL I guess SoBL felt like stirring up some religious beef for no reason. A few comments:

- Catholicism is a monolith, Protestantism isn't (aside from its rejection of the papacy). Anyone talking about "Protestantism does this and believes that" almost always embarrasses themselves very quickly, and this is no exception. Millions of Protestants would look at your descriptions and have no clue what you're talking about. But you know what we believe better than we do I guess.

- I see we're still playing the old "Protestants played a role in developing Progressivism in America, therefore Progressivism is Protestantism" shell game. It was weak sauce when Moldbug ran it years ago, and it's pathetic to see anyone still thinking it holds up today. Read the Dork Enlightenment threads at MPC if you want to see it fed through a wood chipper. Christianity is about salvation from sins through faith in Christ, full stop. Anything that leaves that out is not Christianity by definition.

- Yes, many Prot churches are cucked in various ways. That is nothing to true Christianity, and Christ always said that many who called him Lord would nonetheless miss the mark. Of course the Roman hierarchy is cucked enough to slobber all over illegal aliens' feet to the adoration of news cameras, so maybe check that beam in your own eye.

- "The hurdle for being a pastor is low". Right, because Christ and the apostles were all highly educated and credentialed scholars. The hurdle is actually pretty high (read Paul's letters to Timothy), but it's more about good reputation and devout character than buying a 4-year degree from some homo-infested seminary. Also, you sneer at Prots who memorize Scripture (admittedly some take it pretty far), even though Christ himself clearly had a lot of it memorized. I know Catholics were perfectly happy with the days when commoners could be executed for owning a Bible, but seriously, you should try reading one sometime.

- "the Prots wanted to take political control from Rome". That may have motivated the German princes who defended Prot leaders, but it's pretty slimy to claim that Luther, Melanchthon, Zwingli, etc, were actually just hucksters out to become powerful in this world. They were scholars calling it as they saw it, and eager to debate their views to arrive at the truth. If anything Rome were the ones desperate to cling to their prerogatives, hence the harsh crackdown.

- "They even crafted apocalyptic scenarios like the Book of revelations". You do realize Catholics recognize Revelation as canon too? Do you even know what you're talking about here?

Seriously dude, if you want to debate religion then tell us where you stand and stake out a position. Don't snark about how Protestants are basically no different from shitlib nihilists or Muslim pagans, without really making an argument except that you don't like any of these groups so they must all be the same.

John rockwell said...

To all those who think Protestantism grew out of progressivism:

John rockwell said...

*Progressivism grew out of protestantism

John rockwell said...

''Progs, Protestants and Muslims are iconoclasts. ''

Give credit to God who issued the iconocast 2nd commandment. Who he gave to Moses from Mount Sinai inscribed on tablets of stone.

JPOutlook said...

Want to join in against the idea that Christianity is a negative thing. People who want to whip themselves are free to put their eggs in the same basket they're selling and move to Brasil. I hear there are plenty of "white" areas there from the Trentians who moved to that Trentian country in order to lighten it up... But you won't because you're chickenshit.


Son of Brock Landers said...

Im a practicing Christian and this was a bit of shit stirring but some nagging similarities I noticed.

I'm not going anywhere because I got a feeling the fight is in the 2020s, and this is our homeland. Sink or swim. Should be fireworks.

Thomas Henderson said...

"Give credit to God who issued the iconocast 2nd commandment."

The 2nd commandment is a prohibition against idolatry - the making and worship of things and representations not of God.

For Christians Christ is God. "The Son is the image [icon] of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation." Col. 1:15 and "The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth." John 1:15

For those who reject Christ as God (such as progs, Muslims, and Jews), Christianity is idolatry. Iconoclasm makes sense from their perspective. The term "Christian", on the other hand, means to be "Christ like", to be the bearer of the image or "icon" of God. The faith of the church fathers, therefore, became iconic.

"Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession." Hebrews 4:14

John rockwell said...

''For those who reject Christ as God (such as progs, Muslims, and Jews), Christianity is idolatry. Iconoclasm makes sense from their perspective. The term "Christian", on the other hand, means to be "Christ like", to be the bearer of the image or "icon" of God. The faith of the church fathers, therefore, became iconic.''

Which does not in any way justify the use of icons in worship. Christ being the literal icon of God is in no way equal to an icon made by the hands of man which as far as its use in worship is idolatry. If icons only art I would have no problem.

Its the distinction between the golden calf built by man and the literal manifestation of his glory.

When the cloud appeared and filled the tent of meeting and the people worshipped. Or when the shekinah manifested between the cherubim and people worshipped legitimately.

Portlander said...

I got a feeling the fight is in the 2020s

I didn't get this at first, but now with Sailer's post ("bigger risk of a Trump Administration would less be unchecked exertion of power than complete gridlock blocking the effective exertion of power"), it all makes sense.

Trump is going to be stymied by the Beltway-Wall St. interests; then all Hell breaks loose.

2008 We The People voted for Hope & Change. It was a total sales job (ie. lie), but hey, we (they) wanted to believe.

2016 We The People voted for a political outsider promising to put Americans first. He was stymied at every turn by Congress and Judiciary intent on maintaining the status quo that had served them so well. It is inconceivable to them that anything is broken, other than covert, institutionalized racism, of course.

2024 We The People grab pitchforks and go Medieval. Hey, who could da know'd? Total Black Swan, they'll say. Angry White Men, blindly lashing out in reaction to having their privilege rescinded, they'll say.