Monday, May 08, 2017

P.T. Carlo Is Right About Trad Dads

Several readers and Twitter folks have asked if I read P.T. Carlo's blog post "Against Trad Dads". I did. I recommend reading Thermidor for original content. Carlo is right. The tone is a negative, but the core message is right. These Trad Dads have a habit of using family formation as a solution to all of life's problems, and fail to recognize the reality of the sexual marketplace as it stands today.

It is an incredibly difficult dating market. It is incredibly difficult to find someone who openly buys into forming a family. Marriage and parenthood are great things and good goals for the greater good. They are not for everyone, man or woman. My message for years has been: figure out your path and then walk it full power. Trad Dads are trying to fight the good fight in an age of decay.

Carlo's point about the evangelical nature of some Trad Dads is spot on. I won't comment or even defend the bad Trad Dads like the Dreher types. Thermidor's picking on Dreher has reached epic proportions and is thoroughly enjoyable. Trad Dad evangelicism is as annoying as the evangelical segment of any group. Attempting to be more traditional in how one forms a household is difficult in this day and age. I do not know if I count as a trad dad, but my goal is a home where dad provides, mom focuses on family, mom and dad raise the kids and the kids grow up with a healthy home of men being men, women being women and we all pray to Jesus Christ at a local Catholic Church. I live in a red state, which makes this far more normal than those with blue state blues.

I am fully aware of our degenerate culture. Look at the blog posts I have made about cartoons, television shows and whatnot. That is me actively monitoring cultural products and warning you. A dad can only do so much and prepare his kids so much because they will end up jumping out of the plane like a paratrooper into the wider world. Trad Dads are trying to be protective because they are all products of their age and recognize how awful our society has become. It's an attempt to carve out a bit of safety to even just jump back to a 1980s environment for raising their kids. Not fully 1980s, as these dads don't want their wives working to avoid the daycare or latchkey outcome.

I personally think some of these Trad Dads are faking things. I'm a dad, and if you meet me, the guy you meet is the guy I am at home. My wife and I agreed on going beyond two children because we wanted to, and trust me, as we contemplate anymore we recognize our goals and focus are out of whack with broader society. I mentioned to my parents that we were considering a fourth. My mom was surprised and seemed pleased. My dad's first words with accompanying pained, whiner look was, "Why would you do that?" Breaking a kid down to the cost-benefit analysis was horribly disappointing to hear but revealed that his orientation is around money (small souled bug man). Ours is not. My wife and I are different from our peers from our home blue state. We are fully cognizant of this circumstance of Weimerica.

With that said, how are Trad Dads forming and crafting a home? Tradition was so obliterated by the 20th century progressive mandarins that one ends up creating a cargo cult type tradition in one's home of things you heard worked. I've been pushing for a while now for people to push back, create traditions and resurrect old rituals and traditions into one's homelife. Think about that for one second though. Many people do not know the old traditions automatically. This leads many to just default to 'build a family and try to make enough money for your wife to stay at home with the kids'.

A family now is a rebellion in this modern age. Having a family beyond 1.4 kids in a blue state is a revolution. As /pol even pointed out, how did wanting a decent life with a wife and kids become reactionary? Carlo's essay has great points, and I am stunned how the Houellebecq character Bruno truly has become a male avatar for the crystallization that this is a rapidly changing time that offers little in stability or even a desire for linking to the past or future.

Carlo's tone was a bit more black pill and negative than it had to be. Someone in our sphere asked me about having kids and I said, "It's awesome. It's not the affection or hugs and kisses sweetness of kids but the discovery of life. When a kid starts thinking and getting the world, it's amazing. It's the gift of experiencing life." Yes, the world is an increasingly dark place. That does not have to stop you from seeking things to bring you happiness and make your immediate world a better place. It's like laughing at childless white nationalists that come up with depressing reasons to not have kids. Weird since Europeans had children through the Black Plague, Hun invasions, Muslim invasions, Thirty Years War, Hundred Years War and World Wars.

If you want to change a Trad Dad, if you want to stop the evangelical nature or teasing at the single men around him, start hitting him with the reality of dating. Throw it in his face about what women who go through the college Marxist indoctrination system are like. Show him the texts you receive from women. Shake his cage. Challenge him as you would challenge a prog, but with a different ending, ask him for a plan. Ask him, "how am I suppose to get from here to there?"


Suburban_elk said...

"I personally think some of these Trad Dads are faking things."

As in, they are not walking the walk?

Good topic though. It really is the theme of our day and age: How the transmission of legacy and culture, and blood and soil, of the … patrimony in deed and soul, was broken interrupted abrogated arrogated and loused.

The previous generations, Boomers whatever, were also fucked. They had little in the way of structure and no stricture for guidance.

Greg said...

I don't think it's so bad as PT makes it out to be. He is clearly a blue state urbanite at the epicenter of modern degeneration. Here in my Purple state the unpozed are still numerous enough for family formation to be common. They're not big families, but that is a matter of scale once hitched.

I think the biggest problem young right wing men have is they want to be an apex provider and think a woman can be found anywhere. In reality, finding a good community and woman who can be tamed is paramount. Providing comes later when you have mouths to feed.

This isn't a hard and fast rule but it's how I've seen most of my fellow family men do things and it's how I operated myself.

Ultimately the reactionary man has to choose between being the father of a future generation or the apex productive modern man. We can't be both without the utmost luck these days, despite the fact we do need both in the movement.

Just like activism and passivism are two parts of building a political zeitgeist, men have to take stock of their own and see where they fit and want to be. Some will end up childless martyrs to their tireless agitation on behalf of their brethren. Others will be unsung heroes who raised 5 children to be upright.

A place for each and each in his place. Evangelical family promotion is no more tiresome to me than endless reminders that the dating market is horrific inside of deep blue cities.

Orthodox said...

If you build it, they will come.

The first avenue of attack is criticism. Most criticism is being done individually, such as this somewhat tongue-in-cheek article at TRS: Alt Right Advice Special Edition: A Guide to Your Kids' PBS TV Shows

Molyneux has done brutal reviews of some children's movies he took his daughter to.

Put it all together into "The Poz Report."

Is there an audience? We have an audience that is growing rapidly (good trad dads are the growth engine of the white consumer market, going from 2 to 3 children is 50% growth). Concentrate their market power.

Suburban_elk said...

"The previous generations, Boomers whatever, were also fucked. They had little in the way of structure and no stricture for guidance."

It might be said that they had plenty of structure: the repressive Patriarchy and the rest of it.

So a better question, is why did that structure not appeal to them?

What was missing from that structure that they had to run away from it?

Tiny Duck said...

The point about white nationalists not having kids is key. Its like some people just don't get that they are undesireable. Or maybe they do get it and are looking for excuses

peterike said...

So a better question, is why did that structure not appeal to them? What was missing from that structure that they had to run away from it?

Nothing. It was simply the effects of a massive propaganda campaign, a cradle to grave form of indoctrination that totally dominated the schools, the news media and entertainment. We were sold a false construct, and the majority believed it.

What was missing was the will to fight against it. Despite the occasional flare ups -- a busing protest here, the random black chased out of a white neighborhood there -- whites were supine in the face of their own destruction. I think this was largely due to the relentless shaming contributed by the (((media))) culture. It was very, very hard to still be Archie Bunker after "Archie Bunker." (That clever Norman Lear even named him properly: "Bunker." Well sorry whitey, but we've got bunker-buster bombs now.)

Anonymous said...

Yes, that age of life when everything comes into view for a young child is a wondrous thing to be in the presence of. I was lucky enough to experience it four times. When I don't act my age, I'm a 3-year-old again, looking at bugs, dirt and little obscure details of the things around me.

I do need to share this with the descendants.

anon said...

the small souled bugman meme is legitimately retarded; doesn't even roll smoothly off the tongue. No backbone to it. one of the dumbest yet. shit-tier bro. Not all the memes are strong. Googles and (((Skypes))) were similarly retarded phrases being thrown around a while back.

you wrote on Twitter that your dad values money because he grew up poor while you, instead, value time. So don't give him that label!

also mpc has the ethos of clueless trad dad syndrome I think, just generally speaking. Quite disappointing 4me2C considering their writing is normally top-shelf on other topics.

Random Dude on the Internet said...

PT Carlo gets it right.

I see a number of burger dads out in suburbia who have all of the trappings of being a trad dad but aren't the real deal. I saw these guys talk about how much they love football, deer hunting, and Ronald Reagan. I also saw these guys crap themselves at the articles that were written by "economists" that said that electing Trump would cause the Dow to drop by 10 or 15 percent. I saw these guys come up with excuses about how they couldn't vote for Trump so it was Gary Johnson or heck, even Hillary Clinton. "MUH 401K!" they cried as they voted for unabashed thirdworldists. When it came time for these guys to step up, they chickened out. Fortunately enough shitlords in the Upper Midwest intervened.

After what I saw last year, I can't respect most of these "trad dads" because as PT Carlo points out, it's still about mindless consumption to them. These people follow the libertarian/neoliberal model of America being nothing more than a shopping mall built over magic dirt. It's also why they think having 2.1 children is the cure all: these people don't have the answers because they don't even understand the question.

Suburban_elk said...

Google and Skype were for awhile the gayest memes in the known universe.

Small Souled Bugmen, however, is not bad. It gets to the idea that they lack something White.

Waiting to yet be born though, is the mothermeme on MPC itself: Sharp-ass Conservadad. Down with responsible steroids and god-dammit! he is not alt-right

Toddy Cat said...

MPC is at it's weakest when it comes to feminism, family formation, or just the issue of women in general. For a bunch of guys who are so clear-headed on many topics, their views on these topics are remarkably misguided, probably because these issues don't really fit comfortably with P-man's SCALE! theory of everything.

Augustina said...

I guess I am always confused by the animus against "Trad Dads". It must come from the definition of a Trad Dad. PT Carlo and other critics consider typical middle class suburban dads, "Trad Dads." I, however, never considered them so. I raised my children in the '90's and '00's in the conservative, homeschooling, large family movement. A traditionalist was someone who was pious, devout, faithful, followed traditional sex roles, and raised their children in accord with their faith and beliefs.

It was not an easy life to choose. Half a dozen to a dozen kids were the norm. This, and the wife did not work outside the home, instead filling her days with numerous children that she homeschooled. Dad had to provide structure, discipline, and material support. It involved a lot of sacrifice. Some dads did well with this, some did not.

It is not easy to try to create a traditional culture ex nihilo. Plenty of these true Trad Dads tried mightily, to limited success. The problem is culture is much more than an individual family or even a handful of families. It really requires a whole population of people steeped from birth in the various traditional roles that people have in life.

That is my understanding of a Trad Dad, and while they were not all perfect, nor successful, I at least admire their dedication and sacrifice in bringing children into the world and attempting to raise them and protect them from the degenerate culture around them. And you gotta hand it to them, how many men do you know can keep a wife let alone convince her to have numerous pregnancies and children and have the kids around her all the time?

PRCD said...

I'm hopelessly late to this but I think much of trad dad evangelicalism is the desire to more like us so that things are easier and we are less lonely. Raising kids these days is hard and isolating. I'm planning to move to a red state so that it's easier, but I'm not sure it will be.

If your kids have more like-minded Christian friends, the parents do too and things are easier.

The Bible doesn't say your wife has to stay home and raise the kids while you earn all the money. Too many wrong premises are baked-into post-modern traditionalist ideas. The wife in Proverbs 31 obviously had a job (or several).

Mass conversions to Christianity would abate society's decay, not family formation.