Monday, August 10, 2009

Where is the ACLU and liberals on this one....

Never did I think we'd have surveillance & the use of the internet to help the government compile an enemies list or collect spy on your neighbor tattling that was supposedly common in the age of McCarthy. President Bush asked Americans to keep an eye out for terrorism and national security threats as part of our war on terror (which I guess is over now that a Democrat is in the WH). President Obama just wants you to report people who do not agree with his plans for nationalization of health care....

not good. Wouldn't the NY Times, Washington Post, Daily Show, and the Daily Kos kids be screaming bloody murder if this were done by W? Regardless of party, fight this. There may be a day when a far more evil motive is behind an email or internet collection of names, ideas, etc.


Whitney said...

Dude...that is completely false. The White House isn't asking anyone to 'report' PEOPLE, as in, "Lou Dobbs is saying that Obama is not a citizen, and he works at CNN and his home address is 123 Anystreet, Anytown, USA, and his number is 555-555-1212".

They simply want information on the rumors, as in, "There's a rumor that the new health care program requires old people with the plague to use leeches on their eyes." No one cares who is SAYING it. They just want to debunk the rumors and publicly correct falsehoods that the public may be misinformed about.

Is that a pretty useless and ineffective way to combat the ridiculous and damaging claims of the right in the current health-care 'debate'? Yes. Is it an illegal collective surveillance tactic to intimidate dissenters? Absolutely not.

That conservatives (of all people) would presume that this is some kind of sinister way to keep tabs on political enemies is no surprise, however.

Son of Brock Landers said...

Birthers are retards. Just like the "Palin is not Trig's real mom" Daily Kos kids. Hey, put your kneepads on and get back into position for the administration. Get your email from the admin yet on what to say next? Soon enough you'll learn that all politicians are bought and paid for by different interests. This reform is no reform since it does not curtail malpractice lawsuit amounts (like in european systems) because that would offend lawyers a key Dem base of support, doesnt tax medical benefits in place (which would offend unions), and doesnt mention any details about old people since we wouldnt want to offend steady voters.

If you want to debate health care reform in its current form or even the UK or Canadian version, I'll gladly debate it. I've even lived it myself.

In the end, I think you want universal health care not for covering those last 30 mil people, but so you can major in something like theater and think "even if i don't get a job when i graduate and never make any money, at least i'll have the bar minimum crappy govt health care, phew".

If your heart is pulsing and your breathing weird, you might need a pacemaker, or follow Obama's advice and just take a pain pill. Cheers!

Whitney said...

Are you able to respond to a reasonable response and carry on a 'discussion' (insomuch as it can be called one, seeing as you completely disregarded my earlier point and instead veered off in the direction of an entirely different discourse and the realm of clumsy personal attacks) without attempting condescension? I very much doubt it. Do not patronize me. I understand the bill. I understand special interest politics.

What I do not understand is how you can possibly say that this is 'no reform', or imply that there are minimal to no issues with the current system or with private insurance. Do you truly not agree that there are serious problems with an industry that profits by denying health care services as the foundation for determining health care? Do you not believe that insurance reform is needed in any capacity? What would it take for you to support the bill, in whatever form? If the lawyers, unions, and elderly were 'offended', as you say, would you then be in favor of it? Or is your desire no reform at all? Perhaps you can elaborate.

Your baseless and petty accusation of me personally having selfish (and frankly, laughable--if I wanted to be pursuing theatre, I can assure you I would have no problem getting work, but I'm quite happy as an English major, thank you, and the fact that you seem to view anyone pursuing something they love regardless of potential salary as being somehow delusional or pathetic says more about you and your value system than anything else) motives for desiring health care for every single person in this country is highly offensive. It is also incredibly ludicrous to me that someone who does not want everyone to have basic access to health care and is (presumably) a hardcore capitalist (at the very least someone to whom SOCIALISM IZ EVUL) is accusing someone who is the opposite of being selfish. Of all the accusations, really? Sigh.

Do not presume to tell me what I desire or what I believe. Let me tell you. I desire proper health care to be available to all citizens. I believe that all citizens have a right to that proper health care--not the option of, but the RIGHT to. You, apparently, do not, and that fundamental difference in opinion essentially precludes further 'debate'. I believe universal health care is desirable; you do not. Arguing the details of the current insurance reform plan is therefore irrelevant (and immensely tiresome) if we are truly coming from such ideologically different points of view; I'm not sure what consensus we could come to.

Oh and by the way...I would never, EVER feel the need to use kneepads. "Cheers", indeed.

Son of Brock Landers said...

Thanks for the great laugh. I was joking on the theater major crack, it's a borrowed joke from 'stuff white people like', which fits you to a T. That's right you into 'journalism'. Maybe you could do a good journalistic piece of how Kos Kids called Prez W 'Chimpy McBushitler' for 8 years when he had little in common with Hitler, and then get all offended when someone makes a poster that has dear leader Barry O in the Joker clownface makeup (a year after a magazine did the same thing to W)???? Awesome!

Congrats. You nailed it with your very last bit (a thunderbolt of insight amidst your Obamabot drivel), i'll copy & paste so I dont get accused of baseless accusations. i felt my entire response was mild. i tried to deflect things w/comedy. It's tough to discuss thru blog comments, I would gladly have a dialogue over the phone or in person. Sad thing is, if you could map something out that would be like the Canadian system but more 'fair' and also not drive the US govt to bankruptcy faster than our govt is going, I'd listen (because I can change my views w/persuasion & good plans). You don't seem interested in that because you're an Obamabot..

"I believe that all citizens have a right to that proper health care--not the option of, but the RIGHT to. You, apparently, do not, and that fundamental difference in opinion essentially precludes further 'debate'."

There is much to debate in that very sentence. I dont believe health care is a right. I believe it is a good or service that you pay for. Think Tom Jefferson was thinking health care when he thought about 'rights'? I believe all should have access, but you will get what you pay for and what you desire just like any other good or service. End of story. Your statement could be applied to "a right to proper soft serve ice cream". Think about what we call 'rights' and then think about the 'right to proper health care' statement. Hmmm, free speech, free press, freedom of religion, freedom from cruel & unusual punishment, etc etc and then insert your 'right to that proper health care' (whatever that (that ???) proper health care means). It doesn't fit. Might as well write in 'right to a cadillac escalade w/22 inch rims'.

Be sure to keep your breathing in check though, I didn't intend for you to hyperventilate. Be thankful you're friends with Ewica.

Whitney said...

A few brief points:

* Ha ha ha, yes, you're absolutely hilarious, I see it now. How could I have failed to appreciate your clever attempts at 'deflective' humor?
* Love the condescending scare quotes around journalism.
* Not sure why you keep mentioning/attacking the Daily Kos as if I claim to be their representative or expecting me to jump to their defense or some shit. Little confused as to how you're aware that I even read them--which I, uhm, don't, by the way.
* I will not even attempt to point out the many obvious argument fallacies in your car/ice cream/Bill of Rights rant right now, as you seem determined to ignore any points I make or questions I ask in favor of name-calling, hyperbole, weak comparisons, and shallow stubbornness. You refuse to listen or respond to anything I say (except where, apparently, you lay out the 'conditions' upon which you will 'listen' to me, to which I must apologetically inform you that I don't play that way), brushing it aside as the 'drivel' of an 'Obamabot' while still not making any valid points of your own in response for me to address. As I said, this discourse obviously isn't going anywhere for now; at least anywhere I care to take the time and energy to get to.
* "Hyperventilate"? What the actual fuck. I can only assume this is another brilliant stab at hilarity that is obviously going right over my brainwashed little head, because otherwise I would be forced to conclude that you honestly think this discussion has had some sort of anxious or stressful or at-all-negative effect on me in some way other than being rather irksome, which would, of course, actually BE amusing. As for you telling me to be 'thankful' for my friendship with your cousin, I would inquire as to your meaning if I were not certain that your answer would simply cause more frustration and face-palming, which I've had enough of today--and certainly not only, or even mostly, from you--thanks.

I hope we can actually discuss this issue another time under different circumstances; I've been debating people very heatedly virtually all day and I really need to step away for now. If anything, I have to say I appreciate the fact that you are an informed person who can intelligently and calmly defend his beliefs (even if I may not agree with them) a lot more after dealing with some of the hateful abject ignorance I've been exposed to recently. So here's to that.

Son of Brock Landers said...

last time we talked on the phone and you were losing an argument, you were breathing really really weird. i didnt want you to pass out.

if you werent erica's friend, i'd have made fun of you far more.

relax, enjoy being 19 and have fun in california. Some version, no matter how watered down, of health care reform will happen before fall of 2010. Just dont be too sad when ti doesnt live up to your dreams.

Whitney said...

First of all, your idea and my idea of both an "argument" and what consists of "losing" one are obviously very different, but sure, I'll humor you just as much as I'm sure you think you're humoring me. =) Secondly, I don't remember 'breathing weird' but who knows, I probably was as I remember that night was the night before a lot of huuuuuge things were going down in my personal life and I was under a lot of stress that had nothing to do with perceived argument-losing, but whatever.

And don't be ridiculous, I can assure you I am more than capable of handling whatever mockery you're able to throw my way and even more capable of throwing undoubtedly more stinging mockery back, so by all means don't hold back in the future. If you want an excuse for not resorting to that, try "because we're having an actual serious discussion and immaturely 'making fun' of you instead of sticking reasonably and politely to the issues at hand would not only be the lowest diversionary tactic possible but also incredibly pathetic". That one makes a lot more sense.

Son of Brock Landers said...

I will gladly debate and discuss this with you in person and not thru comments. You're 19, go have fun and get laid in southern california.